As has been previously stated, this is not a political blog but a story in last nights soaraway Express and Echo raised an interesting question. Recently the far right British National Party hired the Victory Hall in our neighbouring village of Broadclyst for what seems to have been a fair sized regional meeting addressed by its national chairman, Nick Griffin. The BNP is not only controversial for its views on issues such as immigration and crime but also because of the pasts of some of its leaders such as Griffin himself who have criminal convictions and in Griffins case has also included holocaust denial and at one time in the late eighties support for the Ghaddaffi regime in Libya. BNP meetings in the past have also led in the past to violent confrontations between BNP members and opponents although, admittedly this has happened less often in recent years.
What then would be the position of the Community hall management if in the future they were approached by the BNP about holding a meeting here ?. Would they take the position that.
1). The BNP is a legitimate political organisation with a considerable number of local councillors nationally, so therefore in the interests of upholding free speech we would hire the hall to them.
Or
2) We dont consider the BNP as an organisation we would wish to be associated with either because of their policies or the backgrounds of a number of their leading and past members, therefore we would decline the booking.
Definately something to think about.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
23 comments:
Whilst pondering this proposition, please consider this. Freedom and Freedom of Speech is an absolute, a bit like death or pregnancy. One cannot be half pregnant or a little bit dead. One is either alive or dead or pregnant or not. If Freedom of Speech is only allowed for the cosy, cuddly selected few then, by the nature of the beast nobody has it.
Another thought for you. "If you keep on doing what you've always done you'll keep on getting what you've always got!"
Has there ever been a society where free speech has been an absolute though ?. Certainly not Britain which had the Lord Chanscellor censoring plays until the 1960s and the state able to slap D notices and other forms of restriction on any story it doesnt like.
I wonder if the concept of free speech would even come into the equation if certain Muslim organisations tried to hire the community hall.
Doubt it somehow.
Ghaddaffi regime in Libya A great back stab yet it was the labour party who sold them arms and the holocaust case never mentions the people put to death in japanees prisoner of war camps or those put to death by the Africans it seems to be a jews only club - I would like the Libdem councillor Mr Button who went to the press about the Meeting after being invited to it to have come so as he could make a reasonable contribution to the debate instead of scare mungering and causing a potential riot by insightment then cowards allways shout from the back of good and honest people but rearly stand and debate.
I am not quite sure what tobireg's point regarding an approach from a n Islamic group is. Does he/she suggest that they would be refused such a meeting? If this is the case and that is indeed what the implication is then I must disagree with such an assertion. It seems from currently accepted mores that the Muslims are able to walk on water in this country of ours the latest manifestation of this being the case of Blackburn Rovers footie club making prayer rooms available at their ground for the benefit of Muslims in the cause of "inclusivity." Strangely, no such concessions have been offered to other fringe religious groups, just those of the "Religion of Peace." (sic)
Not a chance for your average Pagan or Satanist, I'm afraid!!
At the last count there were over three hundred and seventy organisations representing, in one way or another, disparate ethno-religious groups, from The Black Police Officers' Association (no Whites allowed THERE!) to the British Board of Jewish Deputies (certainly no "Goyem" would be welcome there!) but, strangely enough, only the ONE organisation devoted to the exclusive representation of the 90 percent (but not for much longer, I fear) of our population that remain White Christian and that, dear reader, is the British National Party. It's a funny old world.
Interesting points.
Perhaps our BNP friends will be hiring the hall for a public meeting to expand on them. I am sure they would attract an attentive audience.
I assume that neither Blackbuck, nor seafishing are members of the community hall management. Any comment from any of them would be welcome.
Oh and I am male by the way and certainly dont accept that Muslims can 'walk on water'. I thought it was only a certain Mr J Christ of Nazereth who could perform that particular trick. As an aethiest I would contend that all religions are equally responsible for the current ills of mankind although I do understand that people often find comfort in them.
As someone said a long time ago 'Religion is the opium of the people, the heart of a heartless world'. I think thats the right quotation.
tobireg, our atheist friend, blames the woes of the World on religion. To a degree I can agree with his sentiments and empathise with that philosophy. (Try reading the works of Thomas Paine.)However, to equate all religions is akin to comparing the Genoese crossbow with the AW50F sniper rifle. Both killed and kill people but the latter does it at a range of a mile and a half! Similarly with modern Anglican Christianity and Islam. Christianity has, perforce, evolved over the centuries into a grandfather-like entity, toothless, faintly senile but still a benign old gentleman. Not so with Islam. Then, Islam never was and probably never will be a "Religion." It is a ruthless, implacable doctrine of complete subservience in EVERY aspect of the human condition. It demands total obedience to its tenets on pain of death (literally.)
The British National Party would absolutely LOVE to open up a general public meeting to discuss with those that still have ears to listen and with eyes that see and brains that are open to discourse and persuasion but, and here's the rub, there are followers of the "Sinistere" who would come to disrupt, intimidate and threaten all who dared to attend. I am not being melodramatic when I say this; they can be very frightening unless you are used to their funny ways.
However, as the economy collapses, the inner city strife escalates, Peak Oil bites even deeper and people become dispossessed of their jobs and homes perhaps, just perhaps the demand for the BNP's strengths and determination will allow the Party to be not just accepted but actually welcomed.
The British National Party may, one day in the not-too-distant future, be seen as the Charles Martel of the 21st century standing as he did at the gates of Vienna, with his tiny army ranged against the Muslim horde and, like "The Hammer" they may prevail.
Your quotation, by the way.....
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." penned by our dear friend, saviour of the World and living (at the time) saint, Karl Marx in a critique of another but far more human Humanist, Hegel.
Glad to see you know your Marx, Blackbuck.
Marx was certainly not 'another saviour of the world' and I doubt if he would have seen himself as such.
However, This is not a forum to debate either the works of Marx or indeed, the views of the BNP. Should the BNP become 'active players' in thne life of the village I may well have something more to say about them. Maybe we shall see the 'Voice Of Freedom' being sold on the doorsteps before long, or coaches being organised to the RWB festival, who knows.
As you can tell I take a close interest in your organisation in a Trainspotterly way, of course.
Those who might wish to know what some former leading members of the BNP think of the current state of that organisation might wish to take a look at the following.
http://enoughisenough.blogspot.com
interesting reading indeed.
I've followed this debate with interest and can confirm that no attempt has been made by the BNP to book Silverton Community Hall. It is the hall's constitution, not the personal views of the trustees, which dictates hall policy and this is silent on the issue of political meetings. It would be very difficult to word the constitution in such a way as to permit hirings by the more established parties, as has recently occurred, whilst proscribing hiring by others whose views the trustees disagreed with. Having said that, I would refuse to deal knowingly with an organisation as loathsome as the BNP, but that is purely a personal view.
Just as a bit of fun let me reproduce the comment from "Babyblox" with just a VERY subtle change in the wording.
Does it not make his/her comments completely unacceptable in this new format?
I've followed this debate with interest and can confirm that no attempt has been made by the Muslim Council of Britain to book Silverton Community Hall. It is the hall's constitution, not the personal views of the trustees, which dictates hall policy and this is silent on the issue of political meetings. It would be very difficult to word the constitution in such a way as to permit hirings by the more established parties, as has recently occurred, whilst proscribing hiring by others whose views the trustees disagreed with. Having said that, I would refuse to deal knowingly with an organisation as loathsome as the Muslim Council of Britain, but that is purely a personal view.
Thanks to Babyblox for clarifying the situation regarding the hall.
I think that if the Hall management wanted to exclude what they might consider as undesirable political or religious organisations they could insert into their constitution a clause denying access to organisations which promote views of a racist, sexist or homophobic nature.
Whether such a clause might cover the activities of both the BNP and the MCB is a matter for debate.
And one for Blackbuck. Were you at the RWB festival ?. I hope that Mark Collett behaved himself this year and that there were no more 'Andrew Spence' moments. That wouldnt be good for the image of a decent party for 'normal' british folk,would it ?.
I really couldnt be bothered wading through all the stuff on Stormfront looking for the gossip. I can never understand why your lot have to post one liners accompanied by a stack of slogans, quotes and links.
Perfer Covert Undercover myself. At least Tommy Williams has his funny moments.
Still spotting....
Here is my "one liner with quotes, etc."
Tobireg has some very strange thought processes tucked away in his brain. For instance, why on Earth would I want to go onto an extreme web site such as "Stormfront" when I can access the British National Party's web site? The former is run by and is for the benefit of way off the wall people, vociferous but small in number, compared to the British National Party site that is accessed by more people (and by a country mile) than ANY other political party's website.
Tobireg lists, as one of his interests, politics. Fine, so would I. However, I would consider it rather odd for someone to read The Socialist Worker with the same dedication as they would The Times or The Telegraph. As with many thousands of, to quote tobireg, normal, British (did you deliberately forget to capitalise "British," by the way) folk I visit the B.N.P. website to learn the TRUTH, something sadly lacking in most of the media today.
Yes, I did attend the Red, White and Blue and what a fantastic three days it was. The best thing about this event is the feeling of complete harmony with all the others there. The knowledge that if your child wanders off it will be utterly safe and cared for. One could leave anything lying about and it would be there upon your return. This feeling of trust, respect and security is unique in my experience and is akin to receiving Manna from Heaven. Compare the atmosphere INSIDE the festival ground and OUTSIDE. Dozens of arrests, the police attacked (one injured quite severely) cars and properties damaged, local people threatened, what a wonderful bunch these so called, "Anti-Nazis" are! Compare the "hit rate" of the B.N.P. "hooligans!" As usual, narry a one! No-one cautioned, arrested or even questioned. That's the status quo, though, isn't it?
Who is Tommy Williams, incidentally?
Those who wish to oppose the BNP would in my view, be better developing political alternatives to them then parading around with Lollipop sticks, or as in the case of Antifa, staging kamikaze attacks on police lines. The days of physical force anti fascism are dead and gone and have been since the BNP moved into its current phase in the mid 90s. A few groups such as the independent working class association (IWCA) long ago realised that and, despite their political and organisational failings, The IWCA remain the only group of substance to attempt a coherent alternative through their document 'Filling The Vacuum'.
Tommy Williams is a BNPer from Sheffield who runs the Covert Undercover Nusience Tatics blog.
Well, there are a lot of us in Devon who would chuck the BNP in the nearest river if they came a'calling, a tradition dating back to the days when one of Moseley's Blackshirts was tossed in the River Culm when he tried to speak.
Free speech does not, and never should extend to Nazis. We lost enough people fighting against Fascism in 1939-45 to ever make that mistake again.
We will kick the Nazi BNP out of Broadclyst, Silverton and Devon - by any means necessary!
Knock, Knock...is there anyone there?
BlackBuck here, just returned from a foreign trip.
I see that the saga of the BNP still occupies the minds of the locals and particularly of the neighbours down in Broadclyst. Fear not, though, Silverton, your time is coming! The local newspaper, The Express and Echo, have really made a feast of the "goings on", haven't they?
I see that the latest comment on this excellent blog emanates from one "Steve". Could this be, I wonder, Steve Bush, known Marxist and anarchist who has recently published a very left wing and alarming item on "Facebook" calling for violence to be used against the British National Party? As his final exhortation to use "any means" against the party is almost verbatim to that used on "Facebook," I think I may have identified the poster. If, indeed, this is the person that I believe it to be let me assure him that "Mr Plod" has been informed of this publication, that a crime number has been issued and that he can expect a knock on his door within the next few days. The Boys in Blue are not amused!
In this country we JUST still retain the necessary laws and governance to disapprove of calls to throw people into rivers and to use violence against anyone who may disagree with one's own political philosophies.
Tobireg. I understand that you have been visiting the Hyperborean regions of our wonderful group of islands known to many of us as "home." I would postulate that you would also love our "mirror" Scotland in the South, where I have been. I refer to the South Atlantic and especially the Falkland Islands. There is more gas and oil down there than that remaining off Scotland, more fish than in all of our pillaged waters (mostly hake, though) and more sheep than you could shake a stick at.
Good to be back, though.
Oh dear Blackbuck, we are letting the mask slip aren't we? So please enlighten me as to what 'threat of violence' exactly I have used against the BNP? I'd be intrigued to know. You can interpret 'by any means necessary' any way you want, What I mean is that we will stop at nothing to get the BNP out of Devon, of that you can be assured.
As to the tossing people into rivers remark I refer you to Todd Gray's book 'Blackshirts in Devon' where you can find an account of that event.
I have better things to do than beat up misguided individuals in Broadclyst, thanks. But we will be there leafletting on Saturday, leafletting by any means necessary!
Get over yourself blackbuck.
As to my being a 'well known Marxist and anarchist' that's a neat trick! I am also no doubt a ' well known Fish & bicycle'
Nice to see your jungle drums are working though.
Hi Steve ? - It is a matter of record and admitted by you to the Police - if Colin doesn't quit the BNP and leave well alone, we will get rid of him by any means necessary, he should be in no doubt about that, and you should warn him of that. Fascism cannot be allowed to grow unchecked in Devon.
Your words not mine - This is the very thing 14 members of my family have died to stop in wars defending this country and its interests since ww1, little cowards and bullies like you.- further to this I have 2 sons serving today in the conflicts who would like you to go to the front line and see why most of this nations arm forces like the BNP - If you want the chance I may be able to get you shipped out to the front line next week and we will see if you would catch a bullet in the gear they work with.
For the attention of "Steve".
I quote here from an e mail sent for the attention of Colin Fribbens, a parish councillor in Broadclyst and also published on "Face Book" the web site that seems to be very popular with prepubescent youths and Socialists. The text of this complete e mail is too long to reproduce here but it is in the same vein, i.e. threats and lies directed toward the British National Party and to named individuals.
"We have a lot of info now on Mr
Fribbens, and we intend to conduct a campaign against him and against the BNP in Broadclyst and in Devon, if Colin doesn't quit the BNP and leave well
alone, we will get rid of him by any means necessary, he should be in no doubt about that,
and you should warn him of that."
The e mail contains maliciously fabricated statements that, without any doubt whatsoever, constitute criminal offences under common law, sections 4 and 4a of The Public Order Act 1986, and the Protection From Harassment Act 1997 The author, the above mentioned "Steve", is inciting criminal (and in all likelihood violent) behaviour. The author is calling for illegal and unconstitutional methods to stop (by force) people going about their lawful business.
This e mail was clearly intended to engender hatred towards a named and identifiable member of the Broadclst society together with implied threats towards members of a legally constituted Political Party, namely the British National Party. The use of lies, false stereotyping and abusive name-calling is extensive. Therefore the sentiments displayed in this e mail is an offence contrary to sections 17-19 of The Public Order Act 1986.
So, Mr Bush, I mean "Steve",the B.N.P. have this matter well in hand and a crime incident number has been issued.
When are you people of the Socialist Party and the Stop the War Coalition going to engage the B.N.P. and other parties that do not resonate with your Marxist ideals in debate and political discussion instead of resorting to threats of violence and abuse? Come into the real world by standing a few candidates against them. Fat chance of that as you know that the B.N.P. would wipe the floor with you.
By the way, Steve, you really should lose some weight if you are going to do any serious leafleting and the ponytail really should go if you want to create the right image.
Blackbuck you are deluded, thanks for your concern about my weight and hairstyle, I'm flattered. I'd have thought you would be too busy leafletting in Silverton today to be posting on here, but hey-ho.
The email you quote from was actually a personal message sent to a third party, not for the attention of Mr Fribbens, it was never posted on Facebook. It clearly does not constitute any threat, other than against the BNP politically.
Don't get yourself so worked up Blackbuck!
The following is an extract from the story posted today on
www.bnp.org.uk
This is the main website of the British National Party, Britain's most visited political web site.
Photographs were also taken and are now shown of a few of our canvassers outside the Community Hall.
A QUIET WALK IN THE COUNTRY
Following an Invitation in the local press by google blogger Steve Bush.
Mr Mike Turner, Exeter organiser and his team, completed a
comprehensive leaflet drop on all homes in the picturesque village of Silverton nestled in the
quite Devon countryside near Exeter.
It was a great success and with minimal planning was carried out by
volunteers who gave their time to benefit the people of this village
who
normally get left out of main stream political issues. The whole
village is vibrant with close community feeling which went down well with our volunteers who spent plenty of time talking to and debating with some fertile
and well informed minds.
It was quite an eye opener to our leafleters when support and offers
of cups of tea and squash were offered to them. The villagers are a credit to this country a local man said they make sure it is kept clean and tidy and the older folk are helped and kept an eye on in case of emergencies.
This is just what the BNP family is all about.
It would seem the 'BNP Family' isn't very large, four of you as I understand it.
You do have me at a disadvantage though 'Blackbuck' since you deign to post under a bewildering variety of 'nom de plume' - but is this an admission that you are Mike Turner, or were you otherwise engaged?
Anyway, entertaining as this is, it is going nowhere, and since I generally don't discuss with fascists, I think we should leave it at that.
The BNP certainly lied about leafletting 100% of Silverton. At best, I reckon it was about 30% and they even missed one person I know of who is somewhat sympathetic to them.
Post a Comment